Jenny Nuo
Photo by Jimin Hong
Interview by Ariel Cheng ft. Jenny Nuo // Published November 28th, 2023
Jenny Nuo is a third-year UCLA student and an independent alternative pop musician. Originally from Canada, Nuo grew up in the California Bay Area and is currently based in Los Angeles, California. In October, Nuo and Ariel Cheng, a reporter for Descent Magazine, discussed navigating identity, balancing careers, and reflecting upon her experiences as a student through songwriting. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Cheng: My name is Ariel, and I'm a reporter for Descent magazine today with the talented. And first of all, could you introduce yourself?
Nuo: Thank you for having me, Ariel. My name is Jenny. I am a third-year student at UCLA studying computer science and linguistics. And on the side, I'm also a musician.
Cheng: To begin, can you tell us a little bit about how you discovered your love for singing? And what your music says.
Nuo: When I was really little I was super shy. My parents would put me in singing lessons, but I didn't really stick with it because I actually, like, hated performing. And I had a lot of stage fright. So it was hard for me to go up in front of people and to sing as if like, people weren't watching. But then over time, as I grew older, I was really inspired just by watching like Taylor Swift or just like singers — and I started writing my own. And instead of thinking about singing like it was a performance, it was more just like a diary or a self-reflection of sorts. And it was a lot easier for me to break the fear of performing in front of people in that sense because I feel like I was just being very honest with who I was and what I was feeling at the moment. So over time, I would just start writing my own music and then sing at school talent shows. And I think I like writing music more than singing music. I think I'm a better writer than I am a singer because I never really had any vocal training or anything. But I do enjoy playing the piano and making up melodies and lyrics.
Cheng: That's amazing. With your most recent release, "Accidental Win," could you tell us about how you were inspired to write that? What's the creative process you go through when you're creating a song?
Nuo: That's a good question. "Accidental Win" is sort of about when good things happen in your life without you expecting it at all. On TikTok, people are always like, "Oh, this is how I masterminded my way into this relationship." And there's nothing wrong with that, really. And that was kind of like how I was in the past where I would, you know, try to manipulate certain events and circumstances — that I could, like, bump into this person at the right moment, the right time. But I feel like "Accidental Win" is really about the opposite of that. Sometimes you don't even have to try to do anything and then things just fall into place.
Nuo: There's a line in the song that goes, whether it be coincidence or destined from the start." And sometimes I always think about encounters that that are, I guess, chance encounters. I always like to wonder if it's something that was predestined that we have no control over or if it was genuinely just luck. And no matter how you look at it, I feel like you end up with the conclusion that you're a very lucky person to have that thing happen to you. And no matter how you look at it, it just is kind of like a beautiful thing that has occurred. So I think that was my main inspiration for writing the song, just like bumping into people at the right time, right place. I think I found a lot of my closest friends in college that way, just without even trying. And then things just like magically fell into place. So it was just like a nice, like appreciation song for things that worked out without you having to do anything.
Cheng: Well, that's just that's definitely very relatable. Like, I feel like we're always trying to manipulate and control things and sometimes the best things come to you when you least expect the most.
Nuo: Yeah. And to answer your second question — you also asked about the songwriting process — I feel like it's so different every time. But usually, I just start out writing something on piano with lyrics and melody. I usually start out with just a simple chord progression or a sort of idea for "Accidental Win." I came up with the first lines of the song first, so like, it's a miracle you stayed and held my hand, and then it just progressed past that as I kept writing. So usually I have the song pre-written or, just like the acoustic piano first. And then I work with my friend, who is a producer, on the production of the song.
Cheng: I find it very interesting how so many of your topics are super relatable but at the same time, very niche — particularly being a STEM student while pursuing the creative industry. How do you balance both?
Nuo: That's interesting. Because I do feel like when I was writing my music, I felt like it was niche. You know, one of the first songs I ever wrote, "i'm so tired," is about how it feels to be a woman in STEM. Like specifically computer science, specifically, in tech. But I feel like the feeling of imposter syndrome like you don't belong or having to overcompensate for your flaws, is a universal feeling that a lot of minorities would go through when they're trying to pursue a field where they don't feel overly represented. And I guess that is the aspect that makes my songs more relatable, even when they are niche. I feel like a lot of people can listen to them and reflect on the lyrics. Like, according to their own lives, according to their own experiences.
Nuo: For me, pursuing computer science and music, there was never really a question of whether or not I would do either one. I think a lot of people ask me, Oh, like, where do you see yourself? You know, ten years down the line? I always thought I would just be doing what I'm doing now. But, you know, more at a higher level. I would want to be a software engineer but also a musician at the same time. And I don't think like I don't anticipate that I'm going to become like mega famous where I have to, you know, start choosing between one or the other. But I genuinely do think it's something that I'm passionate about. And we really live in a great time where people are able to make music and post it on the Internet and have recognition for it without that being their whole life. I'm really lucky to have that opportunity to do that just by being alive in this day and age.
Nuo: I have been writing music as a hobby of mine ever since I was really little. And then when I got to high school, I started fidgeting around with more robotics and more computer science. Also, my dad is an engineer, so it was just sort of something that he wanted me to do too, because he really enjoyed it. And I also think, like partly coming from an immigrant family, there is that idea that certain jobs just have more stability than others. So I think becoming a software engineer is ultimately a goal of mine that has been instilled within me, whether it be my own passions, my family's, or a mix of both. But it's something that I never really questioned. And that's kind of the same way with music, with that just being one of my core hobbies.
Photo by Avana Wang
Cheng: Amazing. I love how you're finding a balance in both fields. On that note, are there any challenges that you've faced?
Nuo: One of the things I always talk about when people ask me that question is representation in technology, especially for women. When I was in high school, that was the most difficult for me because I think breaking the barrier or just getting a seat at the table is the hardest to do, especially if you don't come from a background of being super experienced in computer science. When I was in high school, I think more people knew me as the girl who did choir. So when I really wanted to join the robotics team or wanted to participate in more engineering-related classes, I felt like a lot of people just didn't expect that and didn't perceive me in that way. So it was hard for me to be taken seriously a lot of the time.
Nuo: But now that I'm in college, it is a lot easier to garner respect in the same sense. I think people are also more mature now, and I feel like we've all been very established. Especially when you're in college, you can just be like, Oh, this is my major, so of course I'm going to pursue this, right? But it was different in high school. That is usually the challenge I would say I've faced. Although, you know, I'm lucky that I come from a place where tech is so prominent, like the Bay Area because I know that for a lot of other girls who don't necessarily come from the Bay Area, who are in a place where the tech bubble is virtually nonexistent, it would be definitely ten times harder for them to have a seat at the table or to have like that sort of like respect — just because it's not like, as popular. Like there are less people trying to go into the tech field, so there are probably much less women trying to break into that field as well.
Cheng: It's amazing that your music touches on both points. I feel like that's why it makes it so relatable. Similarly, do you think that your background being Asian American has influenced the topics that you write about and the way that you approach songwriting?
Nuo: Honestly, I wish I could say it did because I feel like that would be a more interesting answer. But honestly, I feel like if I were to actually have my background as an Asian-American influence my music, it would be way more overt than it is right now. I write a lot about imposter syndrome or academic validation, but I feel like those are not inherently Asian-American experiences. Although prominent, I just don't want to characterize that as, you know, an inherently Asian-American experience. I think the closest I've gotten to talking about my Asian-American identity and my music is that one line in my song "EXPIRED," where I go, I'm not American. But other than that, I don't think there is too much Asian-American influence in my music. I would say most of it just comes from school and my experiences as a woman in STEM.
Cheng: I still love that. Like that one line, I'm not American, I related it to it so much because I'm an international student. Like, I rarely hear any representation. So this kind of touches upon what you talked about already, but how do you think you bring a unique fusion to both of these worlds? As in, tech and music.
Nuo: The biggest thing with my music is that I want to be able to tell stories about my experiences. I know I touched on this a little bit, but it really is important for me to have these voices heard. Sometimes a lot of people in tech are disillusioned, and they kind of believe that the patriarchy doesn't exist in tech anymore because we have so many, you know, opportunities for women to advance. So many, I don't know, like, I guess I would say just career-advancing opportunities. Just off the top of my head, there are organizations like Girls Who Code or, you know, Built by Girls, or coders who are dedicated to helping women accelerate their skills and technology. So people are always disillusioned. They think that because these support systems exist, this isn't really a problem anymore. And I firmly believe that it really is not enough to simply have a seat at the table. It is so much more important for people when they're sitting at that table, to have their voices heard. To have people feel respected. You know, people are always like, if we, you know, admit equal amounts of women and men into our computer science degree program in a university, then the problem is solved. But honestly, as I've moved up the classes, as I've taken more and more classes throughout college as a third year, I can almost guarantee you that there are way fewer women in my classes that I see than how many I saw when I was a first year. And I think part of that is just the support system. Artificially creating equal distributions of men and women is, you know, doing something, but it's not doing everything that is needed to help those women succeed in those spaces that you're creating for them.
Nuo: What I wanted to do with a lot of my music, you know, "i'm so tired," being one really good example, is I just wanted to touch on the fact that it isn't enough to just artificially create spaces for women to feel like they belong. We have to actually take action and make people feel like their voices are heard, that they're being respected, and to give them resources that they need, that would help them succeed. With "i'm so tired," I wanted to underline those things as being the main obstacles rather than like systemic obstacles necessarily. I feel like a lot of times people overlook the social challenges that minorities have to face, but they're not overly represented.
Cheng: I love the answer. I totally agree with that. My next question is who inspires you the most?
Nuo: This is so cliche, but my mom inspires me so, so much. And, you know, she's a really strong woman. And I feel like, I don't know, like, I don't even know where to begin because I don't get this question a lot. And I, I don't always answer it in the same way, but it's actually my mom's birthday today, so I wanted to, you know, answer it in this way. Growing up, I never really thought much of my mom because she is a stay-at-home mom and she didn't work too much. So I always felt like, you know, I could do better than that. Like when I grew up, I didn't want to be a stay-at-home mom. But honestly, in retrospect, I think about how much my mother has done in terms of moving with my dad to Canada first from China when they just got married. They were really going through it. They kind of just didn't have a plan. But my mom was like, I know I don't want to raise a kid in China, so I'm going to move somewhere else. And then making the decision to move from the East Coast in Canada all the way to the West Coast in California is also really insane, especially because they had to give up everything that they built in Canada to move to the United States. And at the same time just so that my sister and I could have a better shot at building a future for ourselves.
Nuo: My mom is one of the strongest people I know. I would say she's stronger than my dad because, she is one of the most, like, adaptable and, like, just courageous people I know. Every time a challenge comes up or something unexpected happens to us, my mom is always at the forefront of making sure that everything is okay or finding a solution — despite the odds being stacked against us. She inspires me a lot because even though when I was little, I was like, I don't ever want to grow up to become, you know, somebody like her. Now, I feel like I find myself growing into her more and more. I want to have, you know, her fierceness and her bravery and courage when she approaches problems. Also, she is like such a fun person to be around. And part of my mom decision to become a stay-at-home mom was also because of our move from China to Canada. Had she not made that decision, she probably wouldn't be a stay-at-home mom. And so, you know, I didn't really understand that when I was younger. But, I mean, when I just think about, like, the sacrifice that it takes to do all of that — like, would I move from, you know, the United States to a totally different country to raise my children? I don't know. Like, I honestly wouldn't be as sure as certain as my mother was at that time.
Cheng: I feel like so many Asian Americans in our generation can relate to that because I feel like the mom is usually the stay-at-home mom. And so we overlook their sacrifices so much.
Photo by Jimin Hong
Cheng: How do you think your personal growth is reflected in your music?
Nuo: I think my music is just like a time capsule of how I felt at the time that I wrote those lyrics. So, a lot of times, I look back on my music and I can't believe I wrote something like that. Not in a way that's like, Oh, that person is so not me, but it's just like, Oh, I feel like I've come a long way. Especially when I look upon songs like "EXPIRED." I think when I wrote that song, I was so like just angry and also really excited to leave my hometown. I think a lot of people were, because it was just when COVID ended, when the lockdowns ended. So I was like coincidentally just very, very excited to leave. And then also I was graduating, so I was like pissed off at everyone at my high school. But when I was writing that song, I was like, Oh my gosh, like, I hate my entire hometown. Like, you know, everybody sucks. And we hope karma, like, gets them good in the future. But when I went home after my first year of college, I was like, wait. This place, you know, despite all its negative sides, I also had a lot of positive experiences and I had a lot of people who, you know, I guess like, liked me more than I thought they did. So yeah, like I had a lot of good friends that stayed with me from high school all the way throughout college. And now I know we're going to be lifelong friends at this point. I have a lot of people that reached out to me after we graduated. Just like being like, Hey, I'm in L.A., and it'd be nice if we could hang out. And people that I like didn't expect that would do that. I think, "EXPIRED" has a very unforgiving tone when it comes to reflecting on your high school years. But everything should be approached with nuance. And as I get older, I am more and more grateful for the experiences that I had because, you know, they made me who I am today.
Nuo: I think it's not really a bad thing, though, that I don't necessarily relate wholeheartedly to the music that I've written in the past. I think it's still one part of me that I will keep with me for a while. Like, I don't think I had the best high school experience, but I also definitely didn't have the worst. And I think that a lot of positive moments are worth acknowledging.
Cheng: Yeah. When we were listening to your music, we noticed how "EXPIRED" definitely has a different ambiance. Or tone, compared to all your other music. But it was something we liked. But yeah, I think as a listener, I totally relate that to your music as well. Because some songs that you listened to a year ago are different than the music you listened to before. You kind of face that same emotion and mood as when you first listen to those songs.
Cheng: What plans do you have in the future for combining your passion for computer science and music? Do you have any aspirations or achievements in mind that you would like to pursue?
Nuo: I want to just become a software engineer, and I want to keep doing music. It's been pretty difficult for me to work on music and college. I personally believe that college is the busiest time in your entire life. It's probably the busiest for years for me. I don't know about everybody else. But yeah, I think college is insane because you have to take classes and you have to work and you have to be in clubs, which is basically working, but you're unpaid and then you have to do so much. All the time. I feel like being at a 9 to 5, like all you have to do is just work from 9 to 5. And it sounds easier to me, but maybe I'm just like, the grass is greener on the other side. I feel like when I have a full-time job and I'm out of school, like, I definitely will have more time to focus on music. That's what I think right now. And I just want to keep writing more and keep writing about my experiences. Those are my plans. My dream, though, is I would love to build something and tie it to music. That would be my ultimate pipe dream of combining the two passions that I have. But yeah, like, I don't even know how that's going to happen. And I really can't say in terms of the specific steps that I'm going to take to reach that dream. Like, I have no idea. That's just something that I aspire to work towards. But also right now, I'm very okay with my current path and how it's projected to go on.
Cheng: That's amazing. Like you said, unexpected things will come to you, like it happens.
Cheng: One last question. Is there a particular message that you want to convey to the world through your music?
Nuo: If I could convey anything to the world, or if I wanted the world to get anything out of the music I'm writing, it'd be the idea that nothing is that serious and nothing is that deep. Even though I write a lot about, imposter syndrome and academic validation or serious struggles, I also want people who listen to my music to realize that. This is kind of a universal feeling that everybody deals with at one point or another.
Nuo: And part of the way that I've like gotten over those or like I've tried to get over those like challenges in my life is really by thinking like, oh, it really isn't that deep. And it's helped me a lot just thinking like, if everybody has imposter syndrome, then is imposter syndrome really real? Because then everybody would just be, I guess, like quote unquote, an imposter, right? Then who who even is, you know, the real imposter, you know? So it's always like fun for me to think about things in that way because it, like, helps calm my nerves a lot. So I hope people who listen to my music, if they relate, then I hope that they can also receive that sort of message that in the end, everything will be okay, that it's not that deep. And I don't know, I feel like I'm also gravitating towards writing more unserious music now. So this question is a reflection of like my whims at the moment. I hope that people can listen to my music and just feel like nothing really matters. Like nothing is that important and that life-threatening.
Cheng: Thank you so much for speaking to us! We're so excited to hear your future music and see how you grow. When we see you on the Billboard, like, you've got to remember this.
Nuo: Thank you for having me.
✺ For Coalesce, Issue 6
Photo by Jimin Hong
